Category: the Rant Board
Hi All. This topic might sound a bit strange, but I was thinking of this in a few ocasions. My mom went to carle's junior one day. Instead of someone at the counter, there was this thing that looked like an a t m. Apparently, this machine was used to order food at the restaurant. The machine had a touchscreen where you can touch the pictures of the food you wanted to order. I strongly don't approve of that because a blind person may want to go to a fast food restaurant one day. They will have to use the touch screen thing to order their food. Only problem. They can't see the screen. All I can say is this will result in a business loss, since less blind people coming means less customers.
Another thing I don't like is drive through only restaurants. I don't like that because what if you are blind, and want to take a cab or other transportation service to a fast food restaurant, but It's drive through only. That's also a business loss because blind people can't drive. The more blind people, the fastfood chain will lose money and the less options for the blind to go eat. I believe that all restaurants should have a place where you can go in and eat. At least go in and order. I also think all restaurants should have braille menues. If not, the waitress or other staff should be able to read the menu.
many cost saving/more secure systems are often impossible for blind people to use. I'm fighting my bank at the moment who are putting in place card readers to help with online banking security. I've only just dragged out of them that they will provide talking personal card readers to those who are blind. I am not convinced though and will wait for the reader to be in my hand and see if it talks when I plug it into my pc.
Katie, what you need to understand is: we live in a sighted world. There are just some things that we need sighted assistance with, and that's all there is to it.
and another thing, ost people going in to those fast food places have vision.
pardon me, most of the people going in to those places have vision.
if we take this view, then this means that disabled people have to be greatful for what they have, taking crumbs from the non disabled population who may take pity on them. it is only because of the fight for accessibility that blind people work with computers like they do today. so I hold the view tthat any new technologies need to take into consideration as many people as possible. disabled, elderly, etc.
I agree. I think fighting for accessibility for things is important or at list to let the fastfood restaurants or whatever place is inaccessible that blind people have problems. If we don't let them know they wouldn't know we have difficulty using a tach screen or whatever. But realistickly speaking we are the minority and they are not likely to spend some extra money to have a person there or have a talking machine just for one or two people. They have much more sighted customers to cover the apsence of a few visually impared. But it doesn't mean i agree with their way of thinking just trying to explain how they think.
I see your point.
what happened to your much vaunted american's with disabilities act? or is it a worthless peace of paper?
If a restaurant is drive through only, sighted asistance isn't possible. A publick transportation service is not going to go through drive through while you order your food. They have better places to be.
Interesting topic. I also think though, that the marketplace needs to be aware that as people who are blind or visually impaired, we may not use the automated terminals of which you spoke at the beginnig of this thread, Katie. Grocery stores have the self-checkout, and when I'm by myself, no way will I use them. I don't even like using them with sighted assitance for that matter. I don't think we'll see the day when automated self-checkout options are the only way to go. Too many segments of the purchasing public would be left out.
Lou
as Nikos says: blind people are not a large market by any means; and while I don't condone silence about these new, often visual technological advancements, I also accept that change isn't likely, and that all hope is far from lost.
DL87: cabbies will take you into any drive-through you wish, as long as you've got the money. lol. And, while you might be pouring your food desires out to the touch board of burgers and wings, that touch board doesn't prepare them. Call in your order, if that's the only way you can receive service. Nonlinear thinking isn't dead; sometimes, it's the only way to skirt life's obstacles.
When the touchscreens start cooking and taking my cash, I'll be worried.
Jim
I'm going to be the lone dissenter (SP?) here, and agree with Joanne's original point. We cannot afford to accomodate the needs of the few when the marketplace will be more greatly benefited by catering to the many. To suggest such is, in my view, ridiculously self-important. If fast-food restaurants are beginning to use touch-screens, then, damn it all, ask a frigging customer in line next to you to help you order. Lower yourself to, perhaps, driving with a sighted friend or co-worker who will assist you in using the drive-through. Sheesh. All this outcry of "We Need Accessibility in Everything! Whaaaaaaaah!" puts me in mind of two year olds throwing fits because they want their favorite rattle during a subdued church service. They're bored, and it's the toy they most enjoy, so they should have it, now! Really, what their parents should be teaching them, and our sense of social responsibility and decency should be teaching us, is that their are others whose needs come before our own. We cannot sacrifice the comfort of the many to satisfy a couple of disgruntled, disabled people who're bitching and ranting because they can't get what they want. Sometimes, life isn't fair. Accept that fact, and learn to adapt yourself to the new circumstances. It is not all. about. you.
love the analogy, julia.
A few months ago, I found this really cool site thanks to one of the sister-sites of this one, www.blindbargains.com. Check out delivery.com. It is quite accessible, and you might find options you didn't think of. The site lets you order food on-line from delivery places. We've found a couple really good places we wouldn't have thought of trying thanks to them, and your money is still that welcome green color--blind or sighted.
Lou
all I am saying on the access front is that an alternative is not always there. when a new system is put in place, it is often seen that an old system is phased out, making things inaccessible. if, for example, the touch screens are replacing human interaction, and the humans can no longer take orders, then it is inaccesssibble. as is with my current issue with the online banking, if the card readers are going to be the only way to access the system, and they are inaccessible, then the system becomes inaccessible, which is wrong. and i would not have anyone help me with my online banking.
Yes, there are some things that we, as blind people, just have to accept that we are going to need assistance with.
Yes, a cab will take you through a drive thru. That driver doesn't care because his meter is still running.
However, to say "....sacrifice the comfort of the many to satisfy a couple of disgruntled,
disabled people....", in this particular conversation is simply idiotic. I would love to know how making a touch screen accessible would be sacraficing the comfort of others. Hell, tell me how making anything accessible is going to sacrifice the comfort of the majority of the population.
I'm so glad that cabs can go through drive throughs. O, about having a sighted friend help you, sometimes, that's inconvenient because not all of us have sighted friends. I'm not wining here. I think that these sighted people are discriminating against blind people. These sighted people need to get with the program here.
It's simple: social network, find sited friends.
That's what supposedly, My Space, Face Book, and many of these other so-called 'networking' sites were meant for, but I digress.
You have to put yourself out there or you'll end up living in a bubble for the rest of your life thinking that everyone is 'discriminating' upon Blind people.
Sorry, but it is you, and other blind folks who need to wake up, remove their heads from their collective asses, and adjust their thinking to the reality of living in a world inhabited mostly by sighted folks. As someone upthread said, nonlinear thinking is always a help, when it's not completely overlooked. Hence, if you can't find a sighted friend, ask a neighbor, your parents, relatives, or any other available and willing adult who isn't a stranger. Be creative with your solutions.
As for sacrificing the comfort of the many, that was an overstatement and stupid of me to say. And I can't think of a more fitting word right now.
the problem is, that when some of us think outisde the box, the sighted world get shitty because they didn't think of it before. I have had this happen. if I proove I can do something with very little adaptation when sighted people have said catigorically that I cannot, and I show them I can, they get pissed for the most part.
lol, well said, Julia.
like someone else said, use your cell phone and call the establishment while your in line and place your order. who knows maybe someone will get it then.
I need to make one little point for you to consider. When companies make touch-screens or other such technology that is visually-oriented, it's not like they're all evil and are discriminating against us on purpose. If anything, they are just not considering our needs into the equasion because they're thinking of the people who will be putting out the most money, who just so happen to be the sighted majority. Now, I would not be surprised if such folks thought of us at all, they might have silly notions like all of us, without exception, have guide dogs who can do anything a human can and play the role of caretaker as well as guide, or that we all, without exception, have live-in personal care attendants who'll just do things for us, unless a saintly family member or spouse will assume that role. Hahahahahaha, yeah, I'm being kind of sarcastic, but I do it to make a point. But still, I just don't think most folks purposely shut us out just to be mean. We just somehow go under their radar because we're not thought of too much until we cross somebody's path and need help of some sort.
Calling in to order food is an excellent idea. I've done that before.
LOL. if it's such a fabulous idea, what are you complaining about?
She lives to bitch. Because thats all she does, all day every damn day!
lol, fatherbear
What about people with special orders. Like no manaise on their hamburgers. I'm sure half of the sighted world would rather do without that stuff.
It looks like soon we will have no human contact of any sort even to owrder food.
The way most of you complain and bitch, I wouldn't want any human contact with you!
We cannot use the demand principle to get restaurants or any other companies for that matter, cater to the needs of the blind, our collective demand just is, by no means, big enough to give us any type of financial leverage with any sort of retail establishment. I think we must turn to legislation, enforcing the ADA or create additional laws that will insure our rights. Of course, I agree, we must find creative alternatives and not expect or enforce that every establishment, even video game arcade or driving simulators, be accessible to all blind and sighted people alike. But, as has been pointed out, if we decide, right away, we don't need access to something and don't bother trying to make our case it's often a slippery slope to exclusion. If touch screens are becoming common place at a fastfood restaurant, next we'll have grocery stores, then banks, suddenly we are totally excluded from the retail world where we used to be able to do business. We must watch these trends and step in where appropriate to insure that we're not marginalized by new technologies. There is willingness and, where willingness fails, legal obligations to include accessibility for blind people to some or full extent in the sighted world. We must pick our battles, know when to be creative and when to bitch and moan, we're good at both I trust.
*moan*
-B
I have no problem asking someone around me to help me .
Yes, that works just as well. Of course, I don't blame people for wanting to be careful if they need help at an ATM or something like that.
I personally think that if we still pay taxes when we purchase things, (which of course, we do), then that tax money should also be used to help accomidate our needs.
I'm not saying that every little thing can be made accessible.
But i am saying that I'm a person to, and just because I can't see doesn't mean I should have to pay someone to take me to the restaurant, all because I can't use the screen to order my meal.
I shouldn't have to pay the cab driver extra to wait on me, just because I can't go in to order, because it's a drive through.
The sighted don't have to do these things, and I still pay tax on things anyway?
No no, if I have to do the same things sighted people do whenever it comes to spending my money, then, I should be afforded the same consideration whenever decisions for changes in the system are being made.
Well, for your information, not all restaurants have it where you can call and order your meal. I do agree with you renee87. Why are us blind people paying taxes if we have to pay extra for accomidations such as taking the cab to a drive through.
renee87, if you can find a cabbie that won't keep the meter running as you go through a drive-through, into a grocery store, or any other trip that might require some waiting, please post some contact details here. lol. A lot of cabbies I know take people everywhere, and, horror of horrors, most of these people happen to be sighted. That meter never stops for them, and it shouldn't for us if that's the transportation we choose.
I agree wholeheartedly with B, but I'll add this: the needless complaining, the protestations, the all-for-me-the-blindy mentality...it only detracts legitimacy from the ability of members of the blind community to coexist in the everyday world.
this is interesting. as far as banking, I would prefer to do my own as I just had a bad experience. as far as drive throughs and touch screens yes ask for help. We will never have everything perfect and that is just the way it is. It would be nice though when things are designed, we were kept in mind but its not gonna happen. and I must say about having no sighted friends get out and meet people, some of my best friends have sight.
DL87
So, what you're saying in essence, is that every place in the world should be fully accessible to us? I think it's ludicrous to expect a restaurant, which may have been initially established to be only a drive through service, to undertake massive building works to ensure that blind people have a place to go in and order. As for suggesting that cabbies stop their meter just because you're blind, who do you think you guys are? Why should they! Why should they lose out? They have to earn a living, and, if it takes 10 mins for your order, why should they lose that 10 mins and gain no moey, when they could have gained up to about £6 on other jobs? Why should they give you anything? Did you give them something? Did you, out of the goodness of your heart, supplement their wages? Because that's what you're expecting them to do; out of the goodness of their hearts, to effectively give you £5 worth of their time. Why should they!
I do agree, as Wildebrew said, that doing nothing is almost as bad as going over the top and demanding change. But, the way this board was begun was attrocious. DL87, you need to realise that life is tough. Don't expect everything to be delivered on a silver platter, cos if you do that, you're gonna be one miserable girl! Just get up and get on with it. If you discover that you really can't do something, and there's no way of doing it, then that's the time to ask for change to happen. But get off your little "Oh i'm a poor disabled person, so do make life easy for me" perch. Life is hard!
Failing all else, if you really can't use the drive through, why not just go to a different restaurant! If you want to take the attitude that they're doing you a wrongness by not considering your needs, then do wrong to them and take your business elsewhere.
*climbs down from her soap box, having finished her rant*
Amen, funky monkey. reading that made me wonder why i even bothered posting here myself. lol. agreed 100%!
Well, I know that life is very unfair, but us blind people not being able to have the same things and opportunities that sighted people do is disability discrimination! All people are created equal, and us blind people should be free to eat where they want, go where they want as independently as the sighted, and do what they wish with independence.
Years ago, blacks and women didn’t have the rights that wites had. Blacks had to sit on a blacks only busses, go to black schools, and blacks and women were limited on jobs, and couldn’t vote for some time. That’s the way with today’s disabled. For example, blind people can’t go to a good restaurant because it’s drive through only. I had to pay extra in order to use the phone I just paid for. See where I’m going at here? If I’m the only person with these opinions, I want to change the world for the blind community. If any of you don’t agree with what I’m saying, I’m sorry. That’s my opinion, and I’m not giving up.
That’s the end of my sermon.
Still bitching. haha!
you are bitching. You expect that sited people don't have to pay extra for anything. Well, what abvout the taxes for your welfare? What about for gas, car insurance, things like that. I bet you when you add up all the things sited people spend extra on so you can eat whereever you want, the costs would more offset the costs of an average blind person. And, there are more than one restaurant with the same food. If one isn't accessible, try the next one. Sorry, but I agree with Cousin and a couple of other posters on here. You have to fight for accessibility, but it isn't all about accessibility. One more thing. In post two, a person illuded to the fact that if someone hadn't fought for accessibility, we wouldn't use computers. That presumption is false. True, microsoft created narrator. However, blind people, mostly, developed screen readers, and efficient ways to do certain tasks on the computer. Blind people have to get off their ass and do something to help out their situation sometimes, and that is what the blind who wanted to access computers did.
DL87
Congratulations! You are the only person who has ever made me feel almost physically sick with anger, and full of pity for you! You say,
Well, I know that life is very unfair, but us blind people not being able to have the same things and opportunities that sighted people do is disability
discrimination! All people are created equal, and us blind people should be free to eat where they want, go where they want as independently as the sighted,
and do what they wish with independence.
This is absolute rubbish! How dare you say that you've had no opportunities! Every, and I mean every, blind person has had opportunities that sighted people just don't get! Whether this be special holidays which are cheaper than they would normally be, or extreme sports, etc, etc, we all know the kind of things I mean, every one of us has had opportunities to do things that sighted people just don't get!
As far as independence goes, you can't blame the rest of the world for your lack of ability to do for yourself what needs to be done. Do other people control you or something? Are you some kind of robot that needs an operator, a sighted operator, to programme you tell you what you can and cannot do? No? Well then, the sighted people cannot directly restrict your independence! Ok, they can make it more difficult for you to get around, but they can't make it impossible! There's always a way round things, and if that means asking for help, then so be it!
You can't expect restaurants/other buildings to become fully accessible when it's not in their interests to do so. Just remember, they're not government funded, so any money spent on accessibility comes from their own pockets. Are you telling me that the millions of pounds needed to build an ordering point, maintain that building, and employ someone to take orders there would be re-cooped in profits from blind people? I think we all know that the answer is no. So why would they do something which will potentially cost them a lot of money? And there's no point arguing that sighted people would use it as well, therefore bumping up the profits, because sighted people already have access to the drive through!
*remains on soap box this time, in anticipation of the next rant*
and another thing. Stop saying "Us Blind People". It's not an "Us against them" thing. And I certainly don't want to be classified with some of the moaners that post here! Get rid of this mentality, for goodness sake! How can you ever expect equality and complete integration of you carry on persisting with this "us and them" attitude? You're just as bad as the designer of that automated touch screen! You are refusing to let us be considered as equals. You are segregating us into a separate entity, excluding us, in your own mind at least, from 'normal' society! It's people that do this that cause most of the problems and inaccurate steriotypes that sighties have of blinkies that the rest of us spend our lives trying to correct! Please! For the love of blind kind, cut it out!
Thank you so damn much. She needs to hear that. Knowing her, she'll find an excuse for what she said, maybe.
You go, boys and girls! You just show that DL87 what a whiner she is by whining about her whining! You'll show everybody who's boss, who's the better human being, who's got it all together, won't you? You just go on with your bad selves and keep calling her whiner and everybody will want you guys to be their roll models! Hahahahahaha!
Godzilla
Aren't you wining about us wining about her wining? *grins*. But then, what else would you do on a rant board? Isn't that what it's here for?
Could be, although I think I was more joking than whining. But now I gotta wonder where the line is drawn between ranting and whining. Does one man's rant mean another man's whine? Or are we getting into one of those cases where the rant board exists but people are discouraged to rant in it because they risk being labelled as complainers or whiners?*grin*
I don't like how some stores have the touch screens. I hate having to give my pin outo some one I don't know. That's why I don't use the touch screns and just ruun everything through as a credit.
I agree. Luckily the only stores in my area that I know use touch-screens are Safeway and Sam's Club and I assume Walmart if there were one close by. Now, Safeway did a halfway decent thing by providing a Braille template that fit over the touch screen, but there seemed to be only one little problem with that method and that was that when you tried to read the Braille in order to just find out where stuff was, you'd activate the various touch-screen controls. Some months ago, however, I read an article that pointed out that Walmart stores decided to keep the touch-screens but one checkout lane would have a more traditional paypoint on it. Maybe some of you who actually shop wal-mart can tell me if that's true or not.
Godzilla
*holds her head* it's too late in the afternoon for me to puzzle that one out! There is a difference in wining and ranting though. I suppose it's all in the way you put your argument across. I suppose it also depends on how petty people get about the issue! Oh, I can feel another rant coming on about this board! I'm off before I start! *grins*
I've seen ones that were half touch screen half pinpad. You use a pin to select payment and that kind of stuff.
And, one more thing, DL, in my opinion, you have to get out and look at the things blind people do to be able to talk about fastfood. Why is it that you don't know how to cook? Why are you complaining about fastfood?
It's not like you can live on that stuff on a daily basis.
Now wait just a char-broiled minute! I admit I have not read every post in this here thread, but did DL87 clearly indicate that she did in fact eat fast food every day instead of cook, or are we assuming this as a way to further assassinate her character?
No, she didn't say that she didn't cook. I am merely assuming so by her ranting on not only this board, but others too. I am just trying to make the point that she won't starve if she didn't have McDonalds, she might actually lose just a bit of weight.
Is she overweight?
Well, Sorry about the ranting, but we all have the freedom of speech, and all opinions are welcome. If I had the money, I'd eat fast food every day. I'm just thinking about the future, when I do eat fast food. I don't know how to cook, and I would do anything to get out of doing so.
Why apologize, what do you owe a bunch of whiners anyhow, eh? Yes, due to freedom of speech they can say this and that and accuse you of whining, but so what?
I am not accusing anyone of wining, just stating facts. You just got it from her that if she could she'd eat fastfood everyday. Referring back to another post, if you don't know how to get around, you might be better off cooking at home.
touch screens in the US? hmm, i thought the ADA would have something to say about that! well, it seems the world is becoming less accessible, so if we dont' say anything, we'll be left behind. just my thoughts.
Both of you have a point. I can take a cab to the restaurant, or cook at home.
Eating fast food everyday? Not exactly the most healthiest of choices. Besides, wouldn't you get tired of eating the same food everyday?
I don't think she would.
In another topick you asked what can you do when you get old and can't look after yourself. If you eat fast food every day you won't get old so stop worying about this. It might sound horrible but it is the truth. You have to consider some healthy options as well.
If you can't coock you can employ somebody who would do the coocking and other jobs that you can't do. Fast food costs more and it is unhealthy.
I couldn't imagine eating fast food every day. Besides the fact that burgers and fries, even different kinds of burgers and fries, would get boring after a while, there is the other issue, cost. Last time I did it, as best I recall, a quarter pounder with cheese, fries, and a vanilla shake, my poisons of choice, came up to nine dollars. That could add up over time.
I agree with Nikos. You won't be getting old. You will die of a heart attack.
Well said.
Fatherbear, I'm not one who follows disability and blindness politics very much, but I fear the ADA either isn't called upon as much as it should, else it is not a very effective bit of legislation. Now, you might want to research this if you're interested, but I'm told that the U.S. is behind in a number of ways as far as accessibility is concerned as compared to other developed countries. Again, I'm not sure how true this is, but it's something I've heard more than once. I mean, we seem to have less audio-described TV and movies than perhaps England and other places have, and what about accessible paper money? Both ideas were shot down because apparently we have to get unemployment amongst the blind up to zero from the 75 or 80 percent it is now. I guess then once we're all working stiffs without exception then we might get accessible paper money and audio-described TV, but then we won't avhe time to enjoy them. LOL! But I do think that if you want something, you do have to raise your voice and ask for it, instead of just waiting your turn while the majority gets their comfort taken care of. Hahahahahaha!
Well, if fast food costs more than a home cooked meal, that may change my idea on it. Well, with home cooked, you have to buy the dishes and appliances needed.
Oh Jesus. You can get cheap-ass dishes at Wallmart, and most houses come with several appliances built in. Some may not have dish-washers, but since you'll be living alone and cooking for one, washing a few dishes in the sink won't be a huge issue, hopefully. Besides, last time I bought food for a week, the cost came to just under fifteen dollars. Granted, I eat very little, but, still. You can survive on a pound of hamburger for the week, if you evenly portion everything. Compare that to nine dollars per meal, and that's nearly twice as much for your daily intake, assuming you eat all three meals at your local Macdonald's.
Yes, I agree, Julia. Besides, once you get a jb and move in, putting in about a hundred dollars fr appliances will more than offset the costof eating out.
The cost of that is probably less than what would be eating out everyday. It all adds up.
DL 87 stated that she did not know how to cook and that she would do anything to get out of cooking. It seems that there are a lot of things that DL 87 doesn't like to do (ie: showering, brushing her teeth) and will do anything that she can to get out of it. Not to worry,though, as she lives at home and her mother cooks for her and forces personal hygiene upon her.
Well, that is why I said she will never get out of the house.
I've said it to her before, and I'll say it again here, mom's not going to be there to hold her hand for the rest of her life.
Nope.
Lord knows she is never going to fined herself a man eather.
She's got to find herself first.
Like that is ever going to hapin.
I'm sure it can. We need to focus on helping her rather than givinv up Sure she's stubbern but can't hurt to try.
Hmmm true true, but it is hard to teach an old dog, new tricks.
Help her? Help her with what? She doesn't want to learn. She thinks everything will be handed to her. Her parents need to send her to a camp where if she can't prepare a meal, otr at leas know where to find a meal, she will starve. You know, one of those wilderness camps.
Her choice then.
I'm not even sure those exist.
No, they probably don't. However, she needs to learn.
very true
Boy oh boy, such caring and concern around here! I'll try to remember that if ever I'm tempted to post my troubles here. I, for one, can honestly say that I have been where DL87 is, at least to a degree. I'm still not perfect, as nobody else is here. Cut her some slack, she's still got a lot of life to live, and there will be a lot of stumbles on the trail. Some of you seem to be aiming kicks for her shins while she is already off balance. How about trying some compassion on for size?
You don't understand. People have tried to explain things to her nicely, here and on other boards, and she always gives the same time of answer which is basically "Why should I?"
Well maybe I don't understand. Denial can be a very powerful thing. Someday there may come a time when literally nobody's around to help. That's something I have experienced, too. Those lessons are the hardest ones, but I think everyone has to experience it at one time or another.
i have a lot of difficult acessing the cash registers from the malls using a mack card so i always take plenty of cash out of the Atm and using it to shop with my parents. and i do not trust anybody handling my atm card because i think that money is a very indeed sensitive issue to play and mess around with. big problems couldoccur like for example, if i ask a friend to take 20 dollars off my acount and then when i go online and realize they took 40 dollars. that's not good. that's just an example, although this never happened.
nd by the way, my bank has a very accessible online banking service.
lthough you need assistance creating your account, but that's it.
We just got some new vending replacement machines at work that only have touch screens. I told them I was not doing business to those machines unless they would make them accessible. So I gave the person in charge my braille labeler now she just has to make the effort to braille them.
Troy
KL1964. Without delving too deeply into your personal history, how were you able to cope with such a situation? I've also been where Download87 is finding herself, and I'm slowly beginning to learn to become self-reliant, as she must. But, to be very fair, there has usually been a safety net of some kind in the form of relatives, siblings, etc. to assist me if I do, perchance, royally mess up. What sort of a circumstance would one have to experience in order to truly be self-reliant? And how did this end on a positive note, assuming it did, of course?
On the topic of compassion, empathy, and the like: I have given this girl the benefit of possibly having extremely severe depression, but even in such a state, one has to be shown a midicum of common sense. Hence, my posts regarding practicality in everyday matters on this, and similar boards. I am trying to dispense helpful, moderately tempered advice, which is not being followed, or even acknowledged. What, then, is one to do, in the stead of tmetaphorically throwing up the hands and letting fly some sarcastically pointed remarks? Patience and sympathy has no effect, and whining is never a pretty thing to hconstantly hear. If coddling will not have the job done, perhaps starkly realistic, even slightly frightening prospects may produce a result.
I agree with Julia. I would rather tell someone the truth rather than tell them a lie and be sympathetic. I have tried explaining things, and it hasn't worked.
To make a very long story short, my circumstances have resulted from some very boneheaded things I have done to effectively push nearly everyone I care about away. My method of survival has mainly been trial and error, a lot of trial and a whole lot of error! Still and all, I have survived, although I'm currently not really thriving. It's hard to thrive when all of one's energy is put toward surviving. I'll let you know how it turns out, whenever that happens to be.
Another thing. This board is for you to rant, not for me to be sympathetic with you, KL. I can state the facts, and state my opinion, neither of which have a thing to do with how you feel.
I wasn't asking for sympathy from you or anyone else. Cousin Cap asked a question, and I was simply answering it. That's all.
I wasn't talking about your last post, nope. I was talking about the post where you stated that you shouldn't post anything here on the boards.
To be fair, Kenny, KL isn't coming here and bitching about her life. She's stating some very difficult facts, and I have tremendous amounts of reserve and respect where that is concerned. She's obviously living proof that life is never a box of chocolates, but a bowl of extremely tart cherries. And still, she hasn't complained over her circumstances at all. I applaud anyone who manages to do that as gracefully as she has so far.
Cousin Cap, thanks for the props, but I'm a he, not a she. <big smile>
Julia, I apologize. I realize what KL is doing. I was just trying to say that if Download came on here and everyone was sympathetic, that she wouldn't learn, and i wasn't going to sit around and be nice.
It seems DL87 needs to actually encounter reality and not be told a bunch of things which might do more to alienate her than help her. Maybe sympathy is not appropriate, but what about empathy? That seems to be in short supply everywhere on the Zone. Or do you believe that since life is unfair, it's futile to be fair, and really, why be nice to anyone anyway unless you perhaps want something from them. I dunno, perhaps I have it all wrong.
Let me add a bit more onto this, since this is the rant board. See, this is one of the few things I find infuriating about the blind community. If you knew a sighted person who didn't cook well or just used a microwave, you'd just say they weren't a good cook. If you knew of a blind person who didn't cook all their own meals, you'd most likely rip them a new asshole and treat them like they were some disgusting thing stuck to your shoe just for not having a certain level of competence or confidence that you have. Guess they want to be lazy or dependent or just don't have that magic can-do attitude, eh? Yes, I believe in being a realist, but I also believe you can't fix people and all the dire warnings won't matter a hill of beans or register because the person just can't imagine it. Now, I could be wrong, but I bet most of us here have either gone through that kind of thing with one issue or another in the past or might be dealing with it now. See, I'm either old-fashioned or just plain weird, because when I think of how to treat people, no matter what their situation is, I have to consider whether I'd like to be treated the same way. So if I am cruel to a person because either I think it's entertaining or I just feel entitled or am just superior, I should expect such treatment to come back to me and bite my ass one day.
My point is not that the sheltered and dependent need more sheltering, but I don't think they need ridicule or shaming either, despite the fact they might admit to certain incriminating things like how often they bathe and etc. See, I don't hold my fellow blind folks up to a higher or separate standard. Blind or sighted, you're all just people to me and I don't feel that because you are a fellow blind person that I should be harsher to you than anyone else.
I agree with the last post for the most part. But conserning download87 i think people wouldn't mind helping her or giving her advice if she didn't have this strange atitude.
A personal example.
I have difficulty cutting up my food.
Which of the two statements would be more appropriate?
If i say at the moment i am not able to cut my food but i wish i could do it and i don't feel well about it or if i say i can't cut my food and i never want to learn and people should accept me and sighted people should do it for me for all my life. ?
I am sure people would be more willing to help me if i took the first atitude than the second one.
That's why i think people sometimes loose their patience with her. It might not be right but she is the one that makes people to behave like that.
I agree with the last poster completely. I am out to help people, and I don't take blindness as a consideration when helping them. However, I can't help someone who doesn't want to, so I rip on them instead.
Nicos. If you tell me you have trouble cutting your meat, etc. I'll gladly either do my best to cut it for you, or show you as well as I can how to do it yourself. I'll do that as many times as is needed, so long as the one I'm helping is enthusiastic, appreciative, and genuinely making an effort to learn and acquire the techniques I'm teaching.
Kenny. Like you, I love to help people who need or want my assistance. But for those who continually whine and complain and don't master or absorb what I'm telling them, my spring of good-will runs dry rather quickly. And when that happens, I often resort to sarcasm, bitchery, and so-on. It's not something to be proud of, per-say, but it's a tactic born of desperate frustration with someone else's stubbornness.
KL1964. Doh! Profuse appologies... Just transpose everything I said n my last post to the masculine, and it will continue to apply. I understand and even sympathize with your annoyance at a dead-end job, since that is what I'm also coping with for the present. Finding another position, even an elementary one, can be extremely difficult with the current, quite crappy employment rates. But something I've noticed is that persistance in this respect seems to pay off, though one might have to practice it for months, perhaps years, in order to achieve a noticeable object.
I'm surprised nobody else hasn't suggested this.
Dl, there are ways to prepare your own meals without eating fastfood all the time, or even at all. If you hate cooking with stoves, ovens, and even microwaves--instead of eating McCdonalds hamburgers, buy some bread, turkey, cheese, and make a sandwitch. You can do that right?
Learn to use an easy microwave, and make quick and easy dinners; heat up a TV dinner; or buy some other types of fruits, like breads and fruits and cereals. But, you sure don't have to live off fastfood or necessarily learn to cook large meals. Plenty of people don't. You do however need to learn some basics, or find alternative ways of eating (Like the suggestions above.)
Thanks. I'm quite confident with the microwave.
But Voldemort, what's the point in ripping on someone? Are you a sadist?
It does seem to me that we, as blind people, are far harder on each other than we need to be. Great Scott, there is a reason why I would never order a steak dinner in a restaurant. Well, no, I take that back, I've actually asked them to cut it back in the kitchen for me, saves a lot of wear and tear. Does that make me a bad blind person or a failure? I know there are some who would contend that I am. But, the way I look at it, whatever gets the job done, and life is too short to worry about the little crap like that.
No, LOL, just trying to explain that if you don't want to learn, don't ask.
KL
I don't think anybody's saying that DL87 is a failure, or at least, I wasn't. It's the attitude that she has which I don't agree about. We, as blind people, can't afford to sit back and expect people to do everything for us, because, if we did, very few of us would get anywhere in life! I don't agree with the way the board turned to general slander of her character. After all, if you want to rant about DL87, shouldn't that be under a different topic? Well constructed criticism is great, but I can see how some of the things posted here would be really hurtful.
I did get angry though, angry at this sit back and expect others to pick up the pieces attitude. And, as someone else said, if people are willing to learn, others don't begrudge helping them! I think also though, that it's wrong to suppose that this is all DL87's own doing. A lot of people have been raised to understand that they shouldn't go and do things on their own. If you wrap a child in cotton wool often enough, it will start being unable to function without that protective atmosphere!
I do agree that the blind community, or some of them, are very hard on each other, but again, it stems back to attitude. Ok, so you can't cut a steak. Did you ever try to learn? I'm guessing you probably did. Or, did you sit back and say I can't do it because i'm blind, so somebody else will have to take responsibility of whether I get to eat or not, because, if my food's not cut, I can't eat. Attitude, attitude, attitude! If you took the latter approach, then, yes, i'd say that that was a character failing. But, if you tried, then fair play. We can't all be good at everything. And, without limitations, we would be even more abnormal than we already are! *grins at the last comment, and waits for the lecture on normality to begin...*
FM
lol. I know i spelled attitude wrong. Now hopefully i will remember how to spell it.
I agree about families being over prottected sometimes. My family is not for the most part but about the food my mom was doing it so i didn't learn at a young age and now i find it difficult. If my mom tried to show me or refuce to do it when i was little i would know by now lol.
I am trying to learn and i hope to learn to cut my food soon enough. Then i will feel more confortable going out with friends to restaurants.
Now i either try and get something that i can pick up such as piza or burger or something that doesn't need cutting. or i ask them to help me without being proud of it lol.
Nicos. At least you're taking the step of asking the kitchen staff to assist you in cutting your food, rather than making a fool of yourself, and potentially a mess of your clothes and napkin, by trying to do it yourself at a restaurant. You have every night at home to practice and improve without feeling humiliated in front of a crowd of near strangers.
Funky Monkey. As much as I agree that download87 needs a major attitude adjustment, I'm afraid that most sighted people would gladly do enormous amounts for the blind people they know. It's part of the fabric of our cultural mythology to automatically regard the physically or mentally crippled as helpless on all levels, so while we wouldn't feel too productive or happy much of the time, we'd still have basic needs provided. Of course, this doesn't take our intellectual or emotional well-being, wants, or needs into account.
I agree with the last post.
actually think of this. spanish people r a minority in this country, but yet most everything has both english and spanish written on it. those automatic self checkout things at walmart have an option for spanish as well. so if they make everything in both english and spanish, it shouldnt hurt to make things accessible for the blind population as well.
oh yes. i have trouble cutting my food as well. my husband does it for me mostly, but i am trying to learn. the biggest problem with me is the plate sliding around when i am trying to cut a bite of steak or something.
fast food resturant, sucks, thats all i can tell you. Home cooked meals are the best! Well, if you were planning to eat somewhere, at least go for a good resturant. Fast foods are emergency foods, but If it takes a lot of work to make a delicious meal, i d rather go through it than eat unhealthy fast foods. Thats just my comment on this subject.
same here PG. i get sick every time i eat fast food because my body is only used to healthy minimally processed foods now instead of that toxic junk that is supposed to be passed off as food.
I can't handle it.
I can actually feel the grease crawl through my system.
I agree with what somannia has said. If they can make things in 2 languages, they can make things blind accessible. I myself totally love fast food! I like home cooked meals, but sometimes a cheese burger from micDonalds sounds so good and mouth watering, especially the french fries that come with the meal!
I'm starting to hate the French Fries from McDonalds. Is it just me, or do they put a cup of salt on every frie in the damn box you get it in?
That is a rediculous comparison. There is a far greater demand for text in multiple languages than there is for text in multiple formats. As for fastfood, it's the best food. It ensures that you won't live so long that your children have to put their lives on hold so their lives can revolve around you.